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Category splits

Announcement made today says all Wembley games under subscribed only advice given regards Wembley is for fans first being over subscribed..looks to me that cat 3 for groups is oversubscribed 7880  applied for cat 3  50% of 12000 = 6000 - 30% leaves 4200 for those in the 70% guaranteed a tick in cat 3 I know they said we could get over 50% but even so ? Last 16 and q/f under 5000 applied over the 3 category’s so far , suppose people are going to miss out if they pick wrong category am I right here ok both instances .

66 Replies

  • Matthew Isle

    Hi Anthony

    Have I misunderstood your questions or have you read the email/update figures as ESTC members who have applied rather than tickets available?

  • David Lilley
    Forget 12000 and 50%. We now have the exact figures. We are getting 11951 tickets for each of the group matches and 7880 of those are in category 3.

    Whilst we haven't had this confirmed by the FA, I don't think they do a separate 70% allocation for each category. I think they do one 70% based on the full 11951 allocation (which gives 8366) and then go down the caps list giving people their first / second choice of ticket category.

    You have 24 caps and you will be in the 70% for group matches and well inside the top 7880. So you will be good for category 3, if that's what you want.

    For the semi-final and final there are 7140 tickets in category 3 and 'fans first' combined. So, again you will be able to get one or other of these categories. Just don't pick 'fans first' without ticking the box that you're OK about being moved up to category 3.
  • Anthony Simpson

    In reply to David Lilley:

    Thanks I’ve picked it up wrong thought it was people who had applied not tickets for each category.. what’s my chances for last 16 and q/f I’ve picked cat 2 and ticked box to go up or down
  • David Lilley

    In reply to Anthony Simpson:

    We've got 4806 tickets to the R16 and 5066 to the QF. So 70% would be 3364 and 3546. Looking at the 3364, you need about 700 - 800 people higher than you in the caps table not to apply and then you're in the 70%.

    Regardless of how many apply and where they are in the caps table, the strategy you have adopted is undoubtedly your best option.
  • Anthony Simpson

    In reply to David Lilley:

    Thanks again advice appreciated
  • Antony Morris

    In reply to David Lilley:

    Looking at the advice given by the FA today, it appears they do a separate 70% allocation for each category!

    I’m on 32 caps and, for example, I should be guaranteed a Cat 3 ticket for the Q/F as there are only 2825 people at or above me in the caps table. The FA are advising that people on 35 caps or below will get a Cat 2 ticket.

  • James Siggins

    In reply to David Lilley:

    I’ve rejigged my application a little today to try and best play the system for moving categories. I’m currently sitting on 24 active caps with my mate on 22, both looking to follow us all the way ideally.
    Any advise from David (the fountain of all knowledge) or others now that the category splits are confirmed would be greatly appreciated, all these figures are an absolute minefield....
  • David Lilley

    In reply to Antony Morris:

    You're right in that the 44 caps and 35 caps figures quoted in the FA advice correspond to a situation where there is a separate 70/20/10 exercise for category 3. If Team England are reading this thread, maybe they can clarify.

    A separate 70/20/10 exercise for each ticket category is a factor which is sufficiently important that it ought to be in the Travel Club T&Cs if that's how they do it. See section 6.3

    englandsupporters.thefa.com/.../terms-and-conditions

    As the T&Cs are currently written, I would argue that they imply just one 70/20/10 exercise per match. Do the T&Cs need to be revised ?

    If there were just one 70/20/10 exercise per match then the FA advice would need to be amended.

    The 70% allocated to higher cappers would be 3364 tickets (R16) and 3511 tickets (QF). These figures are both higher than the category 3 allocations so, in theory, the members in the 70% could snaffle all the category 3 tickets. Assuming everybody in the Travel Club applied for category 3 tickets, the caps cut-off for getting category 3 would be 29 (R16) and 38 (QF). But, as not everyone will apply, the actual caps cut-offs will be lower.

    Maybe we're getting worked up over nothing. If you're applying for category 3, it's a good idea to tick that you will accept category 2 no matter what your caps level.
  • David Lilley

    In reply to James Siggins:

    James Siggins
    I’ve rejigged my application a little today to try and best play the system for moving categories. I’m currently sitting on 24 active caps with my mate on 22, both looking to follow us all the way ideally.

    In view of what Antony Morris has discovered, I would really like some clarity from the FA about how they do their 70/20/10 exercise. For the purposes of this answer, I'm going to carry on assuming that there is one such exercise and that the FA allocate successful members to categories starting at the top of the caps table and working down.

    These comments are based on Matthew Isle's latest caps table.

    On 24 / 22 caps, you would be in the top 70% of applicants for all Wembley matches. For the group matches, there are more category 3 tickets than members on 22+ caps so you should be successful applying for category 3.

    For the semi-final and final, there are more category 3 and 'fans first' tickets combined than members on 22+ caps so you should be successful if you apply for 'fans first' and tick the box that you will accept category 3. But, if what Antony Morris has discovered is correct, then apply for category 3 and tick the box.

    For the R16 and QF there is no guarantee that you will get tickets. The option that gives you the best chance is to apply for category 2 and accept category 1, but only if you can afford it.

    After amending your application, remember the FA's advice to click 'submit application' otherwise your amendments will not go through.

  • Ian Costain

    In reply to David Lilley:

    Yes, this question of a single 70/20/10 exercise or separate ones for each ticket category has been discussed on a couple of threads.

    Confirmation from the England Supporters Club would be very welcome. Such clarity would certainly help fans in their decision-making processes.

    I don't suppose there's a right or wrong answer as such. My guess, for what it's worth, is that it'll be separate exercises for each ticket category. That would seem to be more equitable having established the principle that you're going to make a 70/20/10 split in the way you are (otherwise people in the 30% would potentially not have any opportunity of securing Category 3 tickets).

    Yes, I buy the argument that top-cappers should be rewarded for their loyalty and therefore should have first choice of category. But that kind of goes out of the window a little with the decision that only 70% of tickets go to top-cappers anyway.
  • Paddy Buckley

    In reply to Ian Costain:

    This is what it says in the rules, re the 70%, the number of members who apply for a specified match, and the size of allocation for that game. Also at the bottom members with the highest caps will be given priority to receive their preferred price cat.

    In the event that an individual match is oversubscribed, a ballot will be undertaken whereby 70% of the ticket allocation for each England game will be offered to the Members who applied with the highest number of caps. The number of caps you will require to qualify for the top 70% of ticket allocation will depend on: (i) the number of Members at the relevant time who have applied for a specified match; and (ii) the size of The FA’s allocation for that game.
    Members who are unsuccessful in this draw will go into two ballots for the remaining tickets, as follows:
    • 20% will be balloted to Members who have missed out on the 70% allocation. However, the Members eligible for this ballot will be limited to those who have attended at least two away games and four home games in the 2016-2018 membership period.
    • 10% will be balloted to all Members who missed out in the 70% allocation and the 20% ballot.

    • Members with the highest caps totals will be given priority to receive their price preference for UEFA EURO 2020™ tickets, subject to permission being granted by UEFA.

    If they are saying that there will be a separate 70, 20, 10 split for each category of tickets then they have changed the rules and should make this clear.
  • Daren Lowry

    In reply to Paddy Buckley:

    I think doing a 70/20/10 split for each category would still be giving priority to higher caps.

    As others have said, it's an important question. Personally I think there should be some kind of ballot per category as otherwise someone with lowish caps just above the line could get everything (for Wembley games at least) whereas someone with a couple of caps less could automatically get nothing. That doesn't feel right.

    In our case, we have currently done something different from the advice in that we are in a group with two on 60+ caps, one on 40 caps and one who is somewhere around 16. The two on less caps are my kids.

    I have explained to my daughter that she will have to take her chances in a ballot and might only get one or two games, but I'd like to think that she does at least have a chance and that I haven't effectively ruled her out. We've applied for cat 3 and accepted different categories.

    Another question: Is it possible for people on the same application to get different categories. For example, if 2 or 3 of us are guaranteed cat 3 and someone else becomes guaranteed at cat 2, do we all end up with cat 2 or does the person that would have got cat 2, but not cat 3, miss out altogether?
  • Anthony Simpson

    In reply to David Lilley:

    Sorry David one more thing I understand what your saying about there being 7880 tickets for fans first and cat 3 combined so if I tick the box to accept a ticket in a higher category I will get cat 3. So why are the fa advising anyone on 30 caps or less to select category 3 and to tick the box to accept tickets either side . Are they assuming that there won’t be enough cat 3 tickets for people on less than 30 caps so you may have to have cat 2 . I appreciate your previous advise regards to groups and last 16 and quarters it’s just semi final and final I’m unsure about
  • Damian Penney
    Again prob one for David, I’m on 16 caps and the way I have read this update is I should be ok for a Cat 3 for all the group games and either a fans first or Cat 3 for semi final and final? As there aren’t more than 7200 ahead of me in the caps table? I already have the Last 16 Dublin through UEFA so didn’t apply and the Quarter final I was gona change to Cat 2 accept in Cat 1 also. But as mentioned below why are the FA suggesting moving to Cat 3 for semi and final for people under 30 caps?

    To break it down this is my application

    3 Group Games- Cat 3 (Will accept Cat 2)
    Last 16- not applied (have uefa ticket)
    Quarter Final- Cat 2 (Will accept cat 1)
    Semi Final- Fans first (Will accept cat 3)
    Final- Fans first (Will accept Cat 3)

    I’m hoping from what I have understood the above gets me a ticket for everything.
  • Matthew Isle

    In reply to Daren Lowry:

    Daren Lowry

    Another question: Is it possible for people on the same application to get different categories. For example, if 2 or 3 of us are guaranteed cat 3 and someone else becomes guaranteed at cat 2, do we all end up with cat 2 or does the person that would have got cat 2, but not cat 3, miss out altogether?

    You'd think a group application was just that i.e. if members of a group had to move categories ALL would. That way the group is kept sat together not in different parts of the ground?

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