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A lot of fans Booing the knee tonight

Anyone else think the FA need to drop this gesture for the Euros.

It’s starting to get a bit embarrassing.

Your own team being booed before kick is surely not the way to start a game

109 Replies

  • Paul Leveridge

    In reply to David Covill:

    And that is why it gets bood , you run a poll in the general public and 90 % at least would say BLM .
    As for the player doing the first I think they need to be educated what it actually means don't think they would do it then . I was there last night and bood against BLM .
  • George Smith

    In reply to Daniel Armstrong:

    I think Daniel is correct. There has never been any booing or disapproval of the "kick it out" or "show racism the red card" campaigns that the FA has run or collaborated with previously. BLM has the political element to it and I would hope that the politicisation of sport is what the boos are for. To me I would boo in the same way if the players carried a flag that supported Labour or the Conservatives, or even the Green Party... Just because the political party has some goals (ending racism) that align with the FA doesn't mean that it has a place at the start of every match.
  • Martin Kerry

    In reply to Andrew Ward:

    What a lot of people don't understand is that the people clapping, were clapping the people booing.
  • Mark Barkley

    In reply to Lauren Gresty:

    Who are you to say fans are misinformed, oh my god who are you?
  • Doug Fenner

    In reply to Martin Kerry:

    I certainly wasn't.
  • Doug Fenner

    In reply to George Smith:

    How many people booing the "politicisation of sport" add No Surrender to the national anthem?
  • Garford Beck

    In reply to Mark Barkley:

    Fair question, Mark. I think this was the young lady who worked for the FA/ESTC but who was relieved of her duties, I understand, through redundancy. I've thought long and hard about the booing, last night, and, as far as I'm concerned, it showed how fed up football fans are of being hectored to. All we want to do is enjoy the spectacle. None of us want to see any political gesturing before matches and that is exactly what it is and, of course, virtue signalling. Those players who add the raising of their fist, in a black power salute, should educate themselves on the meaning of such a gesture, it's associations and maybe read up on two Afro-American athletes, who, at the 1968 Mexico Olympics performed the black power salute and which is regarded as one of the most overtly political statements in the history of the modern Olympics. I'd have more respect for Southgate and co if they were to join a peaceful protest against racial injustice in one of our major cities, rather than the pathetic virtue signalling they participate in, before matches, which has zero effect and achieves the square root of nowt. Southgate is misguided and was wrong to say that the jeering was a form of criticism of the players. It wasn't, it was a representation of how most of the country feels. Most of us want to move on from last summer's bitterness, but this country is now one where, instead of discussing issues like adults, it's the person who shouts the loudest whose opinion is the one that counts, especially on matters as sensitive as this. And, of course, if you don't agree with those who support the taking of the knee, you're a rabid racist. Also, Southgate can deny it all he likes, but, the taking of the knee is associated with a Marxist political organisation, I won't give publicity to by naming, which has outrageous political aims (see below) and, as such, in the current circumstances and in my opinion, if you take the knee, you support that organisation. As far as I'm concerned, what's needed here, is firm leadership by the FA. If I were them, I'd publish the following statement: 'The FA and the England National Team are against all forms of racial and social injustice and we support those organisations that seek to end such injustices by peaceful means. We cannot support organisations that seek the defunding of the Police, the closure of prisons and the dismantling of capitalism. Furthermore, we cannot support those organisations that choose to engage in violent and destructive protest and who refuse to engage in constructive dialogue.' Publish something along those lines in the match programme and on their website and it would nail it once and for all. It would provide clarity and there'd be no need for the players, manager and coaching staff to engage in pointless pre-match virtue signalling. If I were Southgate, I'd stick to footballing matters and perhaps if he is, as he appears to paint himself, a man whose integrity is beyond doubt and a man who is happy to call out injustices, he might do well to call out Tyrone Mings for the savage and deliberate forearm smash, barely disguised as a bodycheck, on Sasa Kalajdzic, last night. It should have resulted in a penalty to Austria and a red card for Mings. We can't afford such ill-discipline in the Euros, where VAR will be used, and Southgate should have called Mings out for deliberately endangering the safety of an opponent.
  • Doug Fenner

    In reply to Garford Beck:

    Taking the knee might now, by some, be wholly associated with the BLM movement - BLM is a movement to which some groups have attached themselves, the one you talk about being one of just some of those orgainsations, but the one that provokes the most ire - however the gesture was made recently famous by Colin Kapaernick before being more widely adopted.
    I'm not sure how footballers kneeling before a game for a few seconds, or even raising a fist, is hectoring behavour? They and the FA have made it clear what their reasons for doing it are. If you don't like it why not just ignore it or turn your back?
  • Richard Green

    In reply to Doug Fenner:

    The problem is the kneeling looks like it will continue
    The booing is going to continue

    Surely the FA needs to communicate with the paying fans on a way forward.

    Either way it’s not a good look
  • Matthew Isle

    In reply to Garford Beck:

    That's uncanny Garf as we mentioned the forearm smash comparison in this context too.

    I.e. Arent we all talking about the same thing?

    RESPECT for one another? And our individual take on it.

    To me it's not respectful assaulting someone on the pitch.

    But nor is it respectful booing the opposition anthem (heard on Wed).

    And booing our own players taking the knee doesn't feel right either. However much I understand why spectators are doing it. It just gives ammunition to others.

    Everyone seems to have an opinion here. Trying to shut down the other people's view (by either inferring they are a racist or by wanting them to stop the knee) in itself shows a lack of respect and tolerance.

    Neither side want to listen to the others concerns on this.

    As has been said above this situation is going to rumble on isn't it?

    The opposition will just love that our teams fans (i.e. us) are beginning games with some boing, some clapping and most not knowing what to do. All whilst unsettling our players before they've kicked a ball.

    What a blinking pickle.
  • Garford Beck

    In reply to Doug Fenner:

    Your attitude appears to be that it's ok for Southgate and the players to take the knee, but it's not ok for the fans to voice their displeasure, they should just ignore it; an attitude so typical of the left and of those, who I say, shout the loudest. You're not interested in sensible dialogue, Doug, you appear to support a Marxist organisation and if people don't like it, they can take a running jump. Ditto Southgate and the players. I didn't boo at Middlesbrough on Wednesday, I did, in fact, as you say, ignore it, I looked on at the players and Southgate and his staff with a wry smile and pity because they don't really know what they're doing and why they're doing it. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Southgate, his staff and the players are all decent people and I'm sure they mean well, but they are fools, being led by even bigger fools. As I say, I didn't boo, but I support those who did and I support, even more, their right to voice their displeasure. I hope you would support the England fans right to voice their displeasure, too, Doug, although by the tone of your reply, it doesn't sound as though you really do. Like Southgate, his staff and the players, you seem to have little grasp of history on this subject. I had to smile when you wrote that the taking of the knee was a gesture made recently famous by Colin Kapaernick. Even a cursory check would tell you that Martin Luther King Jr. was pictured taking the knee as far back as 1965. You must have heard of the phrase, 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing', and indeed it is. Another view so typical of the left and those who, like you, support the Marxist movement you refer to, but I refuse to give oxygen to, is that only white people are racist. Do you support the aforementioned organisation and are you of that opinion, Doug? Are you a white person and have you ever been racially abused? Let me tell you something, if there is one person on here who has walked in the shoes of a black person who has been on the end of racial abuse it's me. I was married to a lady from Malawi (you probably don't know where that is, it's in central Africa, it's known as the warm heart of Africa, lovely people, sorry, I digress), born of Indian parents and a Muslim. I'm talking almost 40 years ago. We bought our first house in old Southall and I couldn't tell you the number of times I got abuse, in the street, 'white this, white that', with threats of violence attached, too, some of it right in my face, just for being with the woman I loved, and she would also get abuse, especially from elderly Asian men for being married to me. Literally, they would walk right up to us and start abusing us. I have to tell you, I had real concerns about her safety and that of our son when he was born. But the thing that hurt me the most was that when I took her to football (club football that is, I would never have taken her to watch England back then, because we'd have probably been beaten up by England fans), even some of my so-called mates, whilst not totally ostracising me, certainly changed in their attitude towards me. As I said, we had a son and, of course, being of mixed race, or is it 'heritage', these days, he got his fair share of racial abuse. On one such occasion, at Gillingham FC, he was getting so much abuse, the Police stepped in, of their own volition, arrested the perpetrator and it resulted in a court case. So, if you think things are bad, today, you should have been on the receiving end of it, 40-odd years ago and as a white man, too! In my opinion, attitudes are much changed now and for the better, too. Whilst, regrettably, our marriage didn't last and we broke up, we are still friendly and I am proud to say that I gave her the money to fulfil her dream of visiting Mecca in Saudi Arabia and doing the pilgrimage referred to as Hajj. Virtue signalling achieves nothing, neither does direct, violent action, it is divisive and only serves to make matters worse, as you can see. In the end, only dialogue and education resolves things.
  • Doug Fenner

    In reply to Garford Beck:

    Bloody hell Garfield, you've jumped to an awful lot of conclusions there. Not so much putting words in my mouth as putting in a novel.

    Let's break it down...

    Yes I think it's okay for any footballer - not just the England team - to take a knee is support of an anti-racism cause. I choose to believe them when they say why they are doing it rather than subscribe their actions as being in support of one particular organisation that has co-opted the gesture. I've not suggested people take a running jump, I merely suggested that a sensible course of action is not to boo but to ignore the gesture, I even suggested turning your back on it as a sign of displeasure. As for being "on the left" - I am pretty much in the political centre. The only thing I'm definitely not is on the right. I do not support any marxist organisation of any incarnation.

    As for your history lesson for me on taking the knee, you seem to have missed the word 'recently' in my reply. I am perfectly aware of the civil rights movement of the 60's thanks.

    We'll skip over the patronising comments on whether I know where Malawi is, but I'll counter with the fact my brother-in law is from St Kitts (I'm sure you know where that is) and my nieces are mixed race and I am pretty clued up on what sort of racial abuse they have received in the past and, fortunately not so much, now. I'm very sorry about the abuse you, your then wife and your family suffered for which there is no excuse.

    I totally agree with you that education and dialogue will resolve things. I would counter though that what also solves things is shining a light on them. Whilst things are much better than they were many years back there is still a distance to go and if a few blokes on a football pitch kneeling for a few seconds can do that I, personally, don't see the harm but I accept we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

    I'm very disappointed in the tone of your reply as I have a lot of respect for all the things you do for other fans and your contributions here. If we ever bump into one another I'll happily buy you a drink of your choice and, hopefully, we'll find we have a lot more in common and it's the ease with which we can misinterpret the written word that has been the problem.
  • Timothy Green

    In reply to Matthew Isle:

    Matthew

    This isn’t just an issue for England but all teams in the competition. I’m sure other teams/players won’t take the knee – does that mean they don’t understand the message?

    This is exactly what Rod Liddle predicted would happen in an article in the Sunday Times last year – the footballing authorities have failed to think this through properly. As soon as you start to allow political gestures into football it causes division.

    A pickle indeed.

  • Doug Fenner

    In reply to Doug Fenner:

    I can't seem to edit my post but I forgot to add that I believe the gesture has run it's course now. These things lose any power they have after this much time and it's probably time it stopped.
  • John Davies

    In reply to Lauren Gresty:

    What racism is there in football today (not on about 12 year old kids on Twitter)
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