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A lot of fans Booing the knee tonight

Anyone else think the FA need to drop this gesture for the Euros.

It’s starting to get a bit embarrassing.

Your own team being booed before kick is surely not the way to start a game

109 Replies

  • Matthew Isle
    I guess a good place to start with dialogue might be understanding that the huge, huge amount of people doing the knee and supporting the knee are not Marxist, black power fanatics.

    And that the huge, huge amount of people doing the booing are not far right, white supremacist fascists.

    And that the huge, huge amount of both sides AND those not doing the keeing or the booing are not racist either towards whites / blacks / a.n.other.

    Yes there are undoubtedly still some issues out there but, to me, this is just adding to them and caused a division and tension where there didn't appear to be one.
  • Garford Beck

    In reply to Doug Fenner:

    Hi Doug,

    Apologise for not getting back to you sooner, I was driving. I'm sorry you found the tone of my reply dismissive and/or patronising, I thought I'd pitched it about right. I certainly apologise for the geography lesson which, upon reflection, was a tad patronising. Yes, I certainly do know where the beautiful island country of Saint Christopher and Nevis is. You'll know, but for the benefit of others it's in the West Indies. They do a decent passport, too. I'm a Border Force Officer and I've handled many of their travel documents.

    It is your right to support the players taking the knee, but you've not stated whether you believe the fans have a right, too, to voice their opposition to it. In your later addendum, you seem to have come full circle by admitting that the taking of the knee has run its course and that such gestures lose their impact after this amount of time. Then you go onto say that you think it's probably time it stopped. And I think you'll find, my friend, that's pretty much what the England fans are trying to communicate through their booing. They are saying that they've had enough of it, it only needed to be done the once, you're starting to look silly, stop doing it and move on.

    If you re-read my reply, Doug, you'll see that I did reference the fact that you put recently in your piece about Colin Kapaernick taking the knee. The abuse me and my ex-wife received is all in the past and we've long since moved on, but thank you for your kind and supportive words on that. You're right, shining a light on social issues does help solve matters and to me, that's where education comes in.

    As for your kind offer of a drink, I'll certainly take you up on that offer, but first of all, I'd like to invite you to our fans match on the 18th June, v the official Scotland fans team, Tartan Army Select FC, where I'll stand you a few and you can chat to our guests, ex-Forest, FC Cologne, Arsenal and England striker, Tony Woodcock, ex-Leeds, Forest and Scotland defender, Frank Gray and top football journalist, author and broadcaster, Patrick Barclay. I'll be publishing details soon.

  • Garford Beck

    In reply to Matthew Isle:

    In a nutshell, sir!
  • Garford Beck

    In reply to John Davies:

    Spot on, John, it's nothing like we all remember.
  • Garford Beck

    In reply to Timothy Green:

    You're spot on, Timothy. I recall reading Rod Liddle's article and, from memory, he was quite disparaging about the players taking the knee. I've already referenced it, but I'm of the opinion that Southgate and the players do not understand what they're doing and why they're doing it.
  • Doug Fenner

    In reply to Garford Beck:

    For clarity...

    No I don't support booing them taking the knee for three reasons.

    1) If you are booing because you believe it supports a marxist organisation that you are opposed to I think you are misinterpreting the gesture because it has been said many times that is not the purpose.

    2) Booing someone making a gesture which they say is in opposition to all forms of racism and discrimination just isn't a good look really, whatever the motivation for doing it.

    3) Booing your own players is never a good look.

    I don't think it's contradictory to say that I think it's wrong to boo but also to believe that the gesture has lost its impact and its probably time to reassess it. I don't think booing is the way to express that though. I stress that's just my opinion and others are perfectly at liberty to totally disagree with me on any of it.
  • Garford Beck

    In reply to Doug Fenner:

    For clarity's sake, Doug, and you've managed to avoid answering it, so far, do you support the right of the England fans to voice their opposition to the players taking the knee? It's a straightforward question, just needs a yes or no answer.

    In answer to your points:
    1) In that case, the FA should state quite clearly that they do not support the Marxist organisation being referred to, nor its aims (they should actually name the organisation and make it absolutely clear that they do not support it). Like I said in a previous contribution, they only need to say this once and it clarifies things once and for all. But they won't come out and say that because they're afraid of upsetting the apple cart with the PC brigade. The FA and Southgate and the players are becoming more woke than the luvvies.

    2) It may not be a good look, in your opinion, but a) as I've said, many times, it it their right to voice their disapproval and b) it is a peaceful form of protest.

    3) Pretty much covered in my answer above.

    As for your final paragraph, as I said, previously, you are, in fact, agreeing with the fans who are booing (do you think England fans are racist, they're not, by and large, they oppose racism as much as the next person, but, like you, they want to see a stop to this virtue signalling), but if you think booing is not the way to express opposition to the players taking the knee, what do you suggest they do, in a manner where their voices are heard?
  • Doug Fenner

    In reply to Garford Beck:

    I'm not sure how much clearer I can be than...

    "No I don't support booing them taking the knee"

    And I've previously said they could turn their backs on the players for those few seconds to express disapporval.
  • Garford Beck

    In reply to Doug Fenner:

    No, you’re avoiding the question, Doug, it isn’t about you not supporting the booing, you’ve made that clear. I’m asking you whether you think the fans have the right to voice their opposition. That’s a very clear distinction and you keep avoiding answering the question.
  • Peter John-Baptiste

    In reply to Garford Beck:

    Probably no need to be quite so patronising in your response?
  • Peter John-Baptiste

    In reply to Garford Beck:

    Why is the word 'woke' used almost like an insult these days?
  • Doug Fenner

    In reply to Garford Beck:

    If they can find a way to express their disapproval vocally for their perception that the team, despite assurances to the contrary, are supporting a marxist organisation that they disagree with, in the few seconds that the gesture takes place over that doesn't involve booing or a form of abuse, fine.
  • Peter John-Baptiste

    In reply to John Davies:

    There isn't as much racism at the grounds now as there used to be but I don't think the amount of abuse dished out on social media should be dismissed quite so lightly.

    If someone is on the receiving end of that who knows what that may do to them.

    There's no harm in kindness and decency.

    I'm neither left nor right but I know what's decent beaviour and what isn't.
  • Garford Beck

    In reply to Doug Fenner:

    Why shouldn't it involve booing? I've already asked you to suggest an alternative form of protest that allows for their voices to be heard and you haven't come up with anything. Give me an idea by what you mean, 'If they can find a way to express their disapproval vocally...that doesn't involve booing...' Surely, that would involve some kind of raised voices, yes, or do you expect them to sit their and speak ever so softly and respectfully? So, in your world, booing constitutes a form of abuse. Have you ever booed at a football match? Do you know the Oxford Dictionary definition of the word booing, Doug, and do you know its origins? Booing is not a form of abuse, it is merely an expression of disapproval. As an anti-racist, you'll appreciate the importance of historical facts and origins of words and actions. I repeat, you say, booing is offensive and a form of abuse, it is most definitely not. You say you're not on the left, but you certainly display one of their traits, i.e. you're anti-democratic, that much is clear to see. It wouldn't surprise me, Doug, if you supported those idiots who rampaged through London and Bristol last summer, in the name of fighting racial injustice. I hope you confirm that you didn't.
  • Garford Beck

    In reply to Peter John-Baptiste:

    Good to hear from you PJB, you going up to Middlesbrough on Sunday? We know you're not left or right, you're Wealdstone Pete!! Up the Stones!!
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